Good help is hard to find these days, especially if you’re looking for a reliable contract killer. Do you ask the guy for references? Awkward. So you take his suitability for the task on faith. If you’re religious, you might pray on the whole thing a little (the Lord’s heard worse).
Anyway:
“All five of us are Christians,”
said Tim Lambesis of the U.S. metal band As I Lay Dying.
“I believe that change should start with me first, and as a result, our lyrics do not come across very ‘preachy.’ Many of our songs are about life, struggles, mistakes, relationships and other issues that don’t fit entirely in the spiritual category. However, all of these topics are written about through my perspective as a Christian.”
Of course,
“If you truly believe something, then it should affect every area of your life.”
Like your marriage and your family, obviously.
Tim Lambesis, lead singer for the heavy metal band As I Lay Dying, was arrested in California on Tuesday on charges that he sought the help of an undercover detective to have his estranged wife killed, police said. …
Lambesis’ wife, Meggan, filed papers in San Diego Superior Court in September 2012 seeking a dissolution of marriage, according to an online court database.
The couple has three adopted children.
[image via Daily Mail]
I can’t remember any of the so-called “Satanic” bands doing this. Glenn Benton shouted obscenities at/about his ex-wife. go figure, a lunatic with as bible in one hand, and a gun in the other…
Yeah… remember Mayhem? Varg? They just killed each other, burned down churches, and took pictures of each others’ dead band mates.
And ate the brains/made necklaces from skull fragments of their singer who blew his own head off with a shotgun, but you know… nbd.
I also remember where Mayhem ran under the cover of loving Jesus and having some sort of moral superiority because they sing about the right god. Oh, their stage shows were well-known for their violence and they sang about murder already? Right, it’s the Christian band member that makes all his songs about his Christian faith effecting the decision to hire a hit man to kill his wife. My bad.
Most Satanic bands that I’ve read of/heard of aren’t known for being serious about their faith, which is a big contrast to the Christian bands. As for this guy, wah! You act like you’re dealing with perfect people, which if you’ve ever talked to Christians, they will admit they’re not. The standard of judgment here is some serious butthurt self-righteousness. Oh noes! Some Christian did something very bad, unlike me, who has never done that. You don’t know what Christ helped him NOT do, though; for all you know, he could have been another Hitler otherwise. That’s the thing — you don’t know. And neither does anyone know if your righteousness is all that you claim it to be. Maybe you’ve put out hits on twenty people? LOL.
Yeah… remember Mayhem? Varg? They just killed each other, burned down churches, and took pictures of each others’ dead band mates.
Doesn’t matter that hes christian. We all know people from all walks of life tend to do stupid things. Also, I don’t see anywhere on here that he was convicted. I happen to like the band and hope this will all blow over.
It matters when they use their christianity to state that they have better morals than non-christians.
Seriously, the point of christian heavy metal bands is that they “aren’t of the devil” like the others.
He’s been an atheist for months. Check you shit before spewing it.
Where the are you getting that nugget of nowhere-to-be-found information? I’ve combed the web trying to verify your claim, but all I can find are things that indicate their faith hasn’t transformed much over the course of their journey–like this January 2013 interview.
Why would you assert that he’s not a Christian? Why would you conclude that he must be an atheist?
He was seen wearing a fedora.
Here’s the video where Tim says he is no longer religious or spiritual: link
shocking, your link leads to nowhere.
Nah, the point is to make money. Don’t be fooled.
@Alenonimo
The fact is, they don’t. One of the reasons AILD is so liked is because they don’t have the “holier-than-thou” attitude. They tour with Slayer, Cannibal Corpse, all sorts of so-called Satanic bands and don’t see themselves as above them.
I don’t understand why you come down so hard and sarcastic on him. Christian or not, the dude clearly has problems. With his quote he has shown that he does not truly believe. No sense in making an article public that could help drive him deeper into depression. Be a part of a solution.
Ah, no true Scotsman. He’s obviously not a true believer because he failed to live up to his righteous rhetoric. Just like the psycho in Norway. Or Timothy McVeigh.
Religion expects to never be held accountable for the monsters it creates.
That’s what I just said. He isn’t living up to what he says he thinks he believes. He’s obviously not a Christian. There’s no point in dissing him or dissing Christianity based on these claims
Read up on the “No true Scotsman” fallacy.
Kyzr meant exactly what he said: That dude is a real christian because he says he is one. To say otherwise is to assert that Lutherans aren’t true christians, neither are protestants, nor those, or them, or these…
>”That dude is a real christian because he says he is one.”
>because he says he is one
And I’m a fucking tuna salad sandwich.
I’m no Christian, but I used to be, and studied Christianity extensively. No Christian can live up to what they believe in. That’s the point of Jesus (according to the Bible) – to absolve you of all sins present, past, and future.
To reiterate: In order to live up to what all Christians believe, they would have to be as perfect as Jesus – which isn’t possible – which is why saving is required.
How could you say that he wasn’t a true Christian if he didn’t live up to what he thinks he believes without being perfect, yourself?
I honestly think Tim is just having a spiritual depression. He a Christian still. He just fell off the wagon and got corrupted by touring and fame losing sight of what was important his wife and kids. He still loves them. He just at war with the devil. We all have those kind of breakdowns in our faith. But God is going to make Tim a stronger christian first you fall then you get back up. But I want to say something that might piss you off. You guys lack unconditional love. Tim and I as a christian are not perfect. No christian is perfect. So stop making it off to be like we are perfect because no one will want to come christ to be a stuckup religious corrupt jackass. Me I am not religious. I am spiritual. Religion is rules of spirituality twisted by man. Spirituality is a way of life. Tim is still spiritual and he is in my prayer like the norwegian black metal guys. Love will end all the darkness. Hate feeds it. Kill it with love. Unconditional love and acceptance. Peace.
@ Guitarist777 – Christians need to stop blaming the devil, We all have a choice, to choose right or wrong, to choose blessings or curses, good or evil. Tim may believe, but his actions in this matter are that he chose the wrong path and will have to deal with the consequences. Every man is responsible, and must give an account, for his own life. Murder is a big one. This will probably cost him everything. But, he can always return to God.
Steve,
Thanks for your response.
“It doesn’t matter that he’s Christian…”
I beg to differ. Alenonimo summed it up. That is what this blog is about. Religious people of authority, usually clergy members but other types of preachers and whitewashers too, insist their whole lives that they know the Path, the Truth, the Light; they tell others exactly how to live lives that please God — and then an amazing number of them turn around and do unspeakable things when they think no one’s looking.
I have slightly more “sympathy,” if that’s the word, for Tim Lambesis than I do for most of the hypocrites featured on Moral Compass. Lambesis, from what I gather, hasn’t been as preachy as the rest of these dicks, and has apparently struggled earnestly with organized religion of late (while still professing his allegiance to kindness, unselfishness, and the Lord Jesus).
“I don’t see anywhere that he’s convicted,” you add.
You’re 100% right, though I’m not laying bets that Lambesis will beat the rap: He was caught trying to hire an undercover detective to kill his wife. Presumably, the detective was wearing a wire and the cops got everything on tape. Your note of ‘innocence until proven guilty’ is nonetheless on point and appreciated. We agree with it so much that from day one, this blog has had a text box, in bold type, on the front page, making that exact point: “All alleged violators mentioned in our posts are innocent until proven guilty in court.” See ———->
@Terry Firma
Didn’t realize this was a site specifically for religious chats – came from Reddit, sorry. But I stand by my initial statement that it doesn’t matter what religion he is. Maybe if he said “the lord told me to”, then I would have to say religion was relevant.
-Steve
Tim Lambesis has been an atheist for a while now. It looks like you’ve put a bit of research into this, which leads me to believe you’re either horrible at fact checking and should research more, or are being deliberately deceitful. Both options don’t really increase your credibility.
What’s your source on Tim Lambesis’ alleged atheism? Again, this January interview suggests he hasn’t changed his beliefs.
Tim Lambesis never denied his faith. NEVER. Why would he? He made money trading on that, he might kill his own wife but why would he kill his cash cow?
Christians have this little problem with admitting that their faith is based on lies, but ironically, they have zero problem lying through their teeth to defend it. They make sh*t up all the time. When I was a Christian I found that my pastor made up most of what he spouted because it played well with the congregation, and the other stuff he was getting from other Christian orgs that wrote entire books based on lies and misdirection.
Christianity is a very old cult, a scam. A ruse to get your cash and your devotion. You think they mind a few fibs? Please.
interesting……
christianity = the hardest way to live
alternative beliefs = made by man to suit himself
Ummm, according to his blog he isn’t an Atheist and was still a follower of Christ’s teachings. Where are you getting your info from? I’m guessing your preacher…who doesn’t even know the meaning of the word “research”.
Dear whatever your name is: http://timlambesis.tumblr.com/post/32380385279/clarification-on-a-greater-foundation
Lambesis has been struggling with organized religion and biblical texts, but according to his own tumblr, considers himself a follower of Jesus: “[I’m] still inspired by the words of the man who told us to ‘love our enemies’ and to serve ‘the least of these.’ Regardless of where a person stands religiously, that is simply a better way to live, full of compassion, and alleviating our selfish suffering as we put our energy into serving those worse off than ourselves.”
I’ve named my sources, and dutchairman added an interesting one just now. What are yours?
The post on his blog, as well the lyrics and commentary of his new song, clearly indicates that he has lost faith. Read it.
“still inspired by the words of the man who told us to ‘love our enemies’ and to serve ‘the least of these”. Any atheist could agree with this. This philosophy isn’t dependent on a deity.
You are making stuff up. “my faith is shakey” doesn’t equal atheist, or wiccan, or islamic for that matter. You are building a strawman…aka making stuff up.
“The more I sought truth uncorrupted by years of religious history, the more I kept finding answers I didn’t want to find. Emotionally, it would have been easiest for me to just hold on to what I grew up believing, but mentally that wasn’t an option anymore.” -Tim Lambesis
Wow, really? Religious people question their faith all the time and still call themselves believers. You are jumping to unsubstantiated conclusions based on ambiguous passages, just like a Christian. Go figure.
“The more I sought truth uncorrupted by years of religious history, the more I kept finding answers I didn’t want to find. Emotionally, it would have been easiest for me to just hold on to what I grew up believing, but mentally that wasn’t an option anymore.” -Tim Lambesis
Sounds a lot like he doesn’t believe to me.
Or could he just have been making his faith something more personal and relevant to his own experiences? Many Christians turn from the Church and organized religion and feel that it only strengthens their personal relationship with their god. If he once called himself a Christian and never called himself anything different, then who are you to say that he has abandoned God and/or Jesus?
As Christians, we do not claim to be any better than non Christians. (There are wackos in every religion or non religion) We only claim to accept the forgiveness offered from God to EVERYONE who chooses to accept it. We make mistakes and sometimes do stupid things like every human. True Christians only want EVERYONE to know that the same forgiveness we have for our mistakes if available to you also. There are many who have a distorted view of Christians but do me a favor. This Christian will not assume that all of you “Athiests” or “non-Christians” are wackos like Charles Manson if you don’t assume all Christians are like Lambesis or those like him.
Wayne:
No one here thinks “all Christians are wackos.” My wife is a Christian (with a theology degree, no less). One of my best friends is a preacher.
Is it so hard to get the point that is staring you in the face?
Per our Facebook page:
Nothing more, nothing less.
A bit of solace to the poor, “persecuted” Christians out there: Don’t worry about the “New Atheism”, for against my most fervent hopes, I realize that religion will always flourish as there is never a shortage of sheep begging to be shorn, or smiling liars holding the shears behind their back.
Terry, it’s clear by his blog post that he is not religious anymore. He states how the more he researched, the harder time he had accepting religion. “The more I sought truth uncorrupted by years of religious history, the more I kept finding answers I didn’t want to find. Emotionally, it would have been easiest for me to just hold on to what I grew up believing, but mentally that wasn’t an option anymore.”
In addition, there’s nothing in that interview that Dutch posted that says he’s still Christian.
Their newest album is very clearly about losing faith if you read the lyrics. Or shit, even if you read the commentary that you linked to.
There’s a difference between faith and religion. From what I can tell, he’s shaky on the religion now, and still has his faith in Christ.
I was kinda hoping we could settle this without my having to listen to death metal. I’d rather have a root canal with a Black & Decker drill. 😉
The significance of the interview in Noisecreep is that the interviewer specifically asks Lambesis “What do you think of all the focus the press have put on As I Lay Dying being a Christian metal band or not?”
This would be the point where a newly-minted atheist might make a case for there not being a god, or at least would say that all the Jesus stuff is in the past now. Lambesis doesn’t. At all. He says the songs are influenced by faith (but have to be able to stand on their own). It’s not a ringing endorsement of hardcore Christianity, maybe, but it sure isn’t exactly an atheist coming-out either.
As a sound engineer that has worked with this band on several occasions, I assure you, these guys are christian, especially him. My company has worked shows with them for several years as they have grown in popularity, ranging from small club dates, to bigger amphitheaters.
I wonder how many of the prison population are christian compared to Atheist in prison. I guess the numbers should be the same in the general public, oh wait, there are more christians in prison. Didn’t see that.
I would love to agree with you, but the stats I think you refer to are suspect. I looked into it a couple of months ago, for possible inclusion in the Moral Compass FAQ, and just saw too many problems with the numbers and how they were being interpreted.
Here’s the video where Tim says he is no longer religious or spiritual:
I’ve disabled R. Jimmys’ link because it didn’t go to YouTube, Vimeo, or another trustworthy destination: instead, it pointed to a zip file on an unknown (to me) site. Downloading the file even required a password. Doesn’t seem too kosher.
R. Jimmys, try again if you wish. A proper link, to a trusted site ONLY.
Notice to all: Anyone who repeatedly tries to get any of us to click on dicey links to suspicious sites will be banned.
My morality isn’t based on any religion. I know what’s right “personally,”for me. In saying that, saying your a christian without attempting to emulate Christ’s love will always fail. But anyway, it doesn’t matter if he’s Christian, Atheist, or whatever the fudge. Check your own hearts, we are all capable of terrible things.. just sayin.
I agree with that. This blog has never asserted that there’s a special wickedness about people of faith that’s absent in atheists and agnostics. But the opposite doesn’t seem to be true either. “We are all capable of terrible things.” True.
When an atheist commits murder, it’s horrible. When a Christian commits murder, equally horrible. No difference.
I do however feel a deeper kind of unease or revulsion if the Christian perp is a person of authority — a career politician, or a member of the clergy, etc. — who has attained his position by flaunting his religiosity. To some extent, that applies to Tim Lambesis too. If someone spends a lifetime talking about god, haranguing people with moral lessons, forgive me for finding him extra-douchey if he turns out to be a child molester or a common thief. It’s not (just) the crime, it’s the hypocrisy.
Leviticus 19:28 Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.
I guess that isn’t in his bible, since getting tattoos is definitely making marks upon you. Maybe thou shall not kill is also missing from whatever version he is reading.
At least he’s not like this woman.
You do realize that the OT law, which is what you cited, got rendered obsolete when Jesus lived his life on the earth, right?
Fact, the majority of prisoners are people raised by the “Good Book”. This story shouldn’t surprise anyone. People that preach morals are usually the last to follow them.
Fact, prisons are actually one of the better evangelical environments. Just look at Jeffery Dahmer. He was easily one of the most evil people in existence, and even he had a change of heart. If this interests anyone, his story was documented in the book Dark Journey, Deep Grace.
Yes, and you Christians think that that’s really wonderful. It isn’t. It’s fucking disturbing that redemption and forgiveness come so cheap for monsters like Dahmer. I explain why here. And I’ll have a post at the Friendly Atheist later today that goes into more detail. The link isn’t live yet, but it will be http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/07/08/christian-forgiveness-its-a-bug-not-a-feature/.
Sounds like someone’s jealous that evil people get forgiven and their years of not doing evil things don’t count. You think that his grace came cheap? Oh no. Not even close.
Last time I read the Bible king David’s adultery and murder for hire was documented in the text. It was not glossed over. Since he was high enough up the political and spiritual food chain, it took a prophet of God to confront him. He asked for forgiveness and continued to follow God. David did suffer horrible consequences in his family life.
And what was it this guy did recently who wasn’t that far up the food chain?
Your understanding of both the righteousness of God and the forgiveness of God are both way too small that is why you don’t understand what Jesus did when he died…. for you.
The man who wrote over half the New Testament made it his business to seek out and have Christians arrested or put in jail before he met the resurrected Jesus. He said this was one of the reasons he was chosen to preach the Gospel, so that the mercy of God would be on display.
So keep on ranting atheists and agnostics. The same God loves you even if His followers are flaky.
I have spent over 20 years working with kids in the prison system and watching God change their lives. I once made the mistake of asking God to show me more about His love. I will make the story short.
Within the next couple of weeks we had a kid who had been a straight up Satan worshiper and drug dealer end up in the juvenile camp and get saved. Before he got there his life was spared. Specifically a christian who was witnessing to him out on the streets took a bullet that was meant for the kid. The kid stole the christian’s wallet and booked it out, leaving the other guy on the street. He was picked up for something else and ended up in our camp. Someone took a bullet so that the kid’s life was spared and he lived another day to meet Jesus. Much, much more to the story.
Within the same 2-week period I was down at the beach in the off season, no lifeguards on duty, and ended up going out in a rip tide with another guy to save a guy and girl stuck in the surf. I was young and strong but my love only made it 3/4 of the way back in to shore dragging the girl in with me. I had to tell the girl I was hauling in, “Your on your own now. I can’t pull you any more.” I was worn out and wondering if I could even make it back myself.
Jesus isn’t like me. He would not only haul you all the way back in… He would haul you all the way back in if you were an atheist, Satan worshiper, drug dealer, baby killer, rapist and would give His life for your flaky ass.
I should have just read in the Bible what Jesus had to say about love instead of having Him show me the difference between my concept of love and His.
My concept was way too small. What I was and am willing to do for others is still way less. Jesus means exactly what He says about love and He died for your sins the sins of every SOB that you and I would lock up and through away the key.
I had been a Christian for many years, not playing games, trying to follow Him as best I could and the kind of love He showed me scared me because it was too much. I couldn’t do that and did not want to do what He showed me He would do. That amount of love, giving your life for someone who hates you, curses you and gets your family member hurt or killed is scary, crazy. You would have to just about be nuts to operate in a love like that… but that is the real Jesus.
I have lot’s more to say and hundreds of real testimonies of real stuff that I have seen God do… and most of it never happens in a church but it is very real and God is very real.
The people that have ripped me off the most have been people that have called themselves Christians…I am talking things like cheating me out of $25k and sinking a business I started with my wife… A “Christian” did that to us, but that didn’t make God not real or Jesus not the Savior. I still see Him work.
My roommate before I was married and the best man in my wedding came from prison where I was preaching. My friend who moved in when I moved out was Ex Vietnam vet, ex soldier for hire, ex drug money collection enforcer who got saved. He could take your life with his bare hands or so many different weapons and had sent many people home over his wild life but he was a completely changed man when he got saved. My wife is an ex-prostitute with many family members in prison and mental institutions. Lots of stories there.
Me, I have a degree from Stanford, hold patents and work on spacecraft for a living and yet I not only believe in God, I have come to know Him.
You and I are sinners, just not a bad as some of the people I mentioned above. And Jesus is the Savior… just far better than you can imagine.
It can feel good to be better than some other people flakier than you, especially if they name the name of God or Christian. Heck, that can make you feel better and smarter than God.
But based on my experience and my reading of the Bible, your concept of God’s righteousness and God’s love and forgiveness are all way to small.
When you are done comparing yourself to those folks called Christians and getting all self righteous, go compare yourself to Jesus or maybe make an honest request to have Him show you something about His love.
I could go on and on about changed lives, healed bodies all real, all I have seen first hand and tell you things you would not believe because of your atheism. But I have seen much worse that you on your worst day and I have seen the resurrected Jesus still love them.
“I have spent over 20 years working with kids in the prison system and watching God change their lives.”
Oh, I believe it. Even the most godless of criminals will often turn (quasi-)devout behind bars. It’s perfectly understandable. For starters, religion gives prisoners something to do. It also lets them become part of a righteous tribe. And no doubt, prayer and Bible study look good in the eyes of the warden and the parole board.
But most of all, religion can wash away evildoers’ guilt, if they feel any, and offer them a shot at salvation.
Christians think of redemption as a feature of their faith. But what if it’s a bug? I’ve argued the case here.
Do me a favor, by the way. All are welcome here, but when you post a comment, stick to the topic, and for fuck’s sake be brief. I haven’t put a word limit on what people can post here, but I may yet do that if I get more commenters who think their precious opinion needs a thousand words or more. If you want to write that long, you should look into starting your own blog.
Also, under all circumstances, steer clear of proselytizing. I will not tolerate this explosion of come-to-Jesus prose a second time.
If you wonder whether a sentence or a paragraph you’re writing is proselytizing, the answer is yes.
Just follow these simple rules, and we’ll all get along great. Thanks for your perspective.
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Hey, I think the crucial thing everyone’s missing is that Tim Lambesis lost his faith before this happened. He pretty announced it to all the fans that he was no longer Christian, in not so many words. Obviously they didn’t want to alienate their fans because of it, so this was not widely publicized… but in any case, the prosecutor has already said he one of Tim’s emails to his wife said they he wanted to separate with her because he no longer loved her and no longer believed in God.
I don’t think anyone is missing that point at all, in fact it’s been the main issue pushed by every Christian on here, as if this one fact makes it all understandable now. As we all know of course, atheists eat babies and are responsible for the ills of the world, and no true Scotsman, I mean Christian, a real TRUE Christian would ever commit a crime like this, right?
Thanks for making that point so we all understand how it works. If only there were more Christians in America we’d be almost crime free.